Non Binary is a valid gender

That’s sex , sex is your weenie but you have to feel like a man to be a man just like how you have to feel like you love someone you can’t just love them that’s just not how it works

Yeah this is blatantly ignorant. Even if you wanted to say sex and gender are the same thing (they’re not), you’re still wrong. There are 3 sexes. Male, female, and intersex (think hermaphrodite or a person with a dick that has xx chromosomes, its real).

Now, gender is separate. But I have a feeling you’ll reject science on that topic as well User56787

Intersex people have a gender. Of which there is 2. Male or female. They just have extra secondary sex characteristics ( genetalia). It’s a condition that people have it’s not a gender.

You’re wrong but that’s okay.

Don’t apologize or pretend you didn’t say it. You was right.

If you’re sincere, that blows. If you’re saying “its just a prank bro” you’re cringe.

And TheShuan you’re just simple.

Don’t apologize or pretend you didn’t say it. You was right.

From TheShuan

Ok but hear me out, no.

Exactly. Take that shit somewhere else

@Bangaalore You’re too emotionally affected to view the matter objectively. When discussing objective variables such as definitions, it’s wiser to leave your emotions at the door.

Agreed

Well, they don’t “trick” themselves. Sometimes people are born with the other gender’s brain. It happens. They can’t help it. It’s like a person born with aspergers or other mental illnesses. It’s a mistake in the development process. Certain atoms didn’t align as nature designed us and it results in a mutation of some cells. The result can be things like mental retardation or physical deformities. These people are not able to control it. It’s unfair to accuse them of trickery.

Agreed lol

do you think there are any psychological distinctions between men and women and if so, what are they?

@emmalouiise, That’s not what makes people males or females. It’s strictly biological. Male and female are biological terms. This is how English works.

Congratulations, you managed to be correct. Male and female ARE English terms. They also refer to a person’s sex. I understand it can be confusing for people, so I’ll explain it to you. Sex is what you biologically are (male, female, or intersex). Gender is what you actually are. What you should have been born in (man, woman, nonbinary, trans, intersex, agender, and all the other ones)

So, I like how well you addressed @TheShaun, but you made a mistake that even a non stickler can easily run with. Gender is not “what you are”, gender is how you express yourself

@Arguholoic Biological sex and gender are synonyms. This is how English works. The issue we seem to be having in the lest few years is crybabies attempting to hijack the word “gender” and change it’s meaning in order to make themselves feel more normal. It won’t work. It’s a fad that will eventually lose steam and those same crybabies will still view themselves as outsiders.

@Bangaalore No, personality is how you express yourself. Gender has always been a synonym for biological sex. Only in the last decade or so have the abnormal people been attempting to alter terminology to make themselves feel more normal.

@TheShaun A great way to describe the situation. “…personality is how you express yourself. Gender has always been a synonym for biological sex.” I agree.

So @TheShuan thats just a ridiculously simplistic view of self expression. You can express yourself in all kinds of ways not directly attributable to personality. Also, they were used as interchangeable synonyms, yes, but that was because of a misguided conflating of the two and the reason why people now are trying to distinguish gender from sex is because there is a clear distinction there. There has always been a difference between bio sex and the way that a person expresses gender. We just weren’t cognizant of it the way we are now. So yes, they are trying to update the definition, but they have good reason to do so.

@Bangaalore The fact of the matter is that gender has always been a synonym for biological sex. Only in the last few decades have insecure people attempted to alter it’s meaning in order to feel more normalized. They fail to understand that ‘abnormal’ is not a pejorative. It simply means uncommon and due to the low percentage of the population that they are, they are factually uncommon.

Self expression is called your PERSONALITY, not gender. And yes, EVERY way you express yourself is directly due to your personality. This is covered is basic psychology. The clear distinction is between personality/self expression and gender. One is the way you think and the other is what you physically are, respectfully. You’re not updating anything, you’re completely changing it to fit your personal feelings in order to feel more normalized.

Well, not necessarily. Non-binary people are people who don’t mentally align with their particular physical gender. From the way I see it, people hide under the blanket term of being non binary because emotionally they feel different, however, they don’t feel so different physically.

Feeling different from your gender is completely psychological. You may feel as if you’re a women inside a mans body or vice versa, however, just note that it’s only the way they feel mentally that distinguishes them from their original gender. If you were to note anything else, it would definitely align as normal to their particular gender.

I know what you’re saying lol but please be careful here. It would be nice just to have an acknowledgment that sex is biological and gender is psycho-social.

Non binary people are literally waking up one day and saying I’m non binary today but that could change at any time.

@lilithoswald youre misunderstanding what nonbinary is. No legit nonbinary person feels that way. The person youre describing might call it “nonbinary” but what they should really say is “im confused rn”. A real nonbinary person tends to be more a-gendered in that they don’t feel attached to either string masculinity or femininity and has not a fluid, always changing gender, but one that doesn’t fit well with either pole of the spectrum.

I understand you may be upset at those who disagree with you, but they too feel that they have these ideas pushed on them. Personally, I believe there are two genders but I respect that you believe that there are more than two, but please don’t allow yourself to say that your reason is because it is “rad.” There are actual talking points you could make.

If it’s cool that I make one of those talking points, I would say that I need anyone talking about this to agree on the difference between sex and gender. Basically, if you can’t accept that sex is biological and gender is expression, it’s going to be hard to get anywhere.

And then, the talking point for me is that accepting trans gendered people doesn’t pose any tangible harm to society.

@Bangaalore: Good points but I can’t agree. Sex and gender are the same thing. They always have been until recently some people began to use the words differently. There is a medical term, and it’s known as gender dysphoria. Of course I believe that gays, lesbians, and bisexuals deserve human rights, but it is not their right to make everyone believe that a word is what they define it as, not what it has been defined as for centuries. In terms of transgenders, personally, I don’t believe it should be legal to surgically change your sex. I don’t base my opinions on religious perspectives. I’m actually not religious. In the future, sex change surgeries will become so well done that you won’t be able to tell which gender they actually are. The problem is that transgenders truly believe that they are the other sex, even though every one of their chromosomes is the gender in which they were born. I’m just saying, I don’t want to engage in sexual intercourse with the same sex as me. I feel this is too big a risk to allow a smaller group of people something that is detrimental to the majority of the society.

Yeah, so, I’m sorry this is going to come off rude because its through text, but you just don’t know the science of sex and gender. So, while I want to debate about the harm thing, its not going to work if we can’t agree on relatively easy definitions. Could you accept that you might not have kept up with the science? Or is it more that you’re dug into the old ways of scientifically understanding sex and gender, and that you wouldn’t accept that science can evolve past that old model?

I appreciate your sensitivity to the situation, but I still can’t agree. I have informed my self very much so scientifically. Every chromosome in your body matches the gender you were born with. Biologically, there is a natural definition of gender. There are two genders and two sexes. One may believe that they are something else, but that is unrelated and should be contained to their mind because that is what they believe, and that is okay, but it is not okay to push that on everyone else. The psychology of someone may differ from their biological gender, but that is their own psychology. I won’t allow my self to bend the definition of gender to acquiesce to an infinite amount of possible psychological states of being.

Okay, so the second one, got it. But you should be aware of your bias here because even in your own model you’re just flat out wrong.

So, if I were to say, “okay, I accept that transness is a purely psychological phenomenon,” you would still be wrong because there are 3 sexes and (in your opinion) genders. There are males, females, and intersex people that don’t have simple XX or XY chromosomes. This is objectively indisputable. 

Now, I want to progress the conversation, but again we’re running into the same problem of you being unwilling to grant a working definition for the purpose of discussion. You don’t have to believe it to explore it is what I’m saying, because if you are unwilling to, then the conversation only goes one way that automatically confirms your point. Like, it’s just an unfair framing that sets rules for a conversation that nobody wants to have unless they’re trying to virtue signal or circle jerk. 

Not to mention that this idea that anyone is trying to cram pronouns and ways to treat trans people down anyone’s throat (outside of strictly professional ethics), is just not a thing. Like, no trans person wants to unpromptedly force someone to call them something. Most would just try to correct you politely and if you refuse to, they’ll probably just stop talking to you. The only time that a trans person is going to have that argument on an individual basis is if they feel attacked and get defensive like anyone in any situation in which they feel attacked in some way.

Also, I’d make a final point that “NonBinary is not a valid gender” is just kind of dumb and pointless because it doesn’t change the fact that even if it is only a psychological thing, it’s still a readily observable phenomenon that seems to need to be addressed. 

Yes, I intentionally stuck with the two genders usually thought of when you think of sexes. I fully agree with you that there are different chromosome sets that result in a different body. Of course not all “non-binary” people force their beliefs onto others but there are many that do. It’s fine with me if you want to use gobblygook pronouns but I’m just saying I’m not going to use them myself because they contest my scientific beliefs. I believe that there are she, her, he, and him pronouns but the others are just to create an identity. If someone believes they are a unicorn, I’m not gonna call them a unicorn. This is a random example but it’s just to get my point across. I don’t agree that it needs to be addressed within society. These psychological phenomena are endemic to these people. It is their situation, not mine. They can address it if they want to, I just don’t see why it has to be addressed as “another gender.” It’s just an abnormal psychological state. 

I see your point, I do. You don’t *have* to refer to them how they want. Its just a little silly to me when there is not good reason not to. Who cares. The only reason this is debated is because these people want to proclaim and express their side of things and are immediately met with derision. If its endemic to them just don’t participate.

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